Thursday, January 5, 2017

The Bottommost Turtle

What's the bottommost turtle?  Could a human being design a computer virus that could generate a viral community within which a self-conscious virus could evolve as part of a civilization of such entities?  If so, it seems unlikely the designing human could feel much correlative empathy with each such viral member.  God, I don't believe, is like that.  Because God would be of a qualitative difference.  There is a fundamental logical difference between The Holism and a Subholism that merely sponsors sub-sub holisms.

So consider how The Holism may retain connecting empathy and feedback reconciliation with each subholism.  How might a boggled submind conceptualize such a situation?

Well, think about fractals, indiscernibly similar iterations, and subroutines. Think about what appears before us as a trinity:  Immeasurable aspects or qualities of Consciousness, measurable aspects of math-based and conserved translations of Sub-stance, and absorption of present forms into recordations of past In-form-ation. 

Consider:  Does the past continue also to exist, qualitatively, as a Trinity, or does it pass only into accumulations of "dead" and recorded information?  May the past "return eternally," to qualitative experience?  Or may it only be stored within the memory-potential of the Trinitarian Godhead of Consciousness-Substance-Information?

The "physical" mechanics seem beyond mortal comprehension or control.  But, the metaphysics may be potentially inspiring, even where empirically bizarre.  That is, for moral/spiritual/inspirational/communicative/metaphorical purposes, one may conceptualize a fluxing, trinitarian Godhead that functions qualitatively beyond math, but that can signify only within systems of math-based conservation.  In that case, the Godhead could not be proved by mortal maths, but math-based mortal measurements could not unfold without it.  As to limits on the qualitative potential for such a Source to feedback to us, what mortal could say?  IOW, one may conceptualize how ought may unfold from is, metaphysically but not physically.

If that seems bizarre, consider how obvious it is that our unfolding experiences consist entirely of a flux of Consciousness, Substance, and Information.  Is God a mathematician?  Is Nature merely a web of math?  Is all that unfolds to our qualitative and quantitative experience an appreciation of the flux of God functioning in respect of a web of math?  Is God the ultimate Simulator?


I agree that apocalyptic "solutions are best avoided. My faith is that life is essentially good. That wisdom is also reflected in Genesis, btw. Hope you don't begrudge that.

You somehow "divined" snark and fear? Interesting, yet an ironical leap of faith (based on my divine intuition of your agenda-ridden angst). Lucky for me that I have above average competence for most situations. You?

So your faith is that altruism and empathy are built into the human condition. Is that In common with all atheists or just your sect? Does the human condition include AIs? Are altruism and empathy built or programmed into all Cyborgs? Among those built into, would it trouble your built in pride to respect its Source as God? When you communicate with like minded believers, do they share your preference that its Source be referred to as the Source instead of as God? I can respect that preference.

Well, does a-theism give you happiness, comfort, and purpose? Is life basically good or dreary? If dreary, would the "good" thing be to set off a globe-destroying bomb/apocalypse to put people out of their misery?
By an atheist's moral code, "should" we help or hinder apocalyptics? And forego having children?

I take it, then, that you rely (for resolving moral concerns) instead on innate intuition? So do I. My intuition is that the Godhead abides. I mean no disrespect to those who believe their intuition is otherwise.

I grok that. I am rather fond of the Church of the Cosmic Big Sky. I am also fond of some preachers that conveyed wisdom to help me and my wife raise our daughters. Sometimes it can be worthwhile to search for a fit. I am not especially tied to any organized doctrine. The value is in the humble feedback.

Why are you Atheist? What is an Atheist? Is it a theist? Is it a doubter (agnostic)? Is it a knower? Do you know what you know? What is this "knowledge"?
If you can provide the empirical proof that there is no Godhead, do it. As to the "evidence," it can be interpreted both ways. I can argue the evidence for a Godhead against the evidence for no Godhead. The evidence abides, but it is not conclusive. Because, for a mortal, how could it be?
So, apart from choosing a dramatic stance (or preference in faith?), why are you in your faith an a-theist? How is an agnostic different in principle from a believer? Neither one knows, so both doubt. And believe. One believes in a meta-basis for moral guidance. The other believes in -- what? What do you believe in concerning morality that is not faith driven?

I like the NAP. I just think it works better when related to the Great Commandment and the Golden Rule. Not so much when legislated by knowitall busybody make-a-new-law atheistic-ACLU types. Do you think we need more laws, lawsuits, and lawyers?

What is your authority to say what is shameful or not? Is this just your personal authority? Do you have some objective shame-measuring stick that you defer to? That sounds pretty religious.

I don't think you read what I said. Maybe you read what you wanted to read?
In any case, I don't think a fine line can be drawn between altruism and selfishness. But neither do I believe they are one and the same. Rather, I believe there abides an innate feedback relationship that fluxes between a perspective of the whole and a perspective for each part.
Sort of like a Godhead that nurses each perspective. Neither the Nurse nor the Nursee need be entirely altruistic or selfish, but connected, caring, empathetic, and intuitive. Good faith (Great Commandment) and good will (Golden Rule). Spiritual Feedback, not severance between Pearly Gates and Hell.
When so-called atheists try to conceptualize a non-God Source of morality, I think they fall into spiritual incoherence. Just my opinion.
As to historical facts, my reading of history leads me to find atheists and cultists more likely to incline towards religious-like rationalizations for collectivism, dhimmism, elitist legalism, communism, socialism, fascism, and other varieties of intrusive degradation of human liberty and responsibility. No thanks.

The reason to look to higher-minded guidance is based in humble recognition of one's mortal limits. I do not believe in YOLO, but neither do I much concern myself with Pearly Gates. As to Karma, I do not claim knowledge.
But I do believe all perspectives of consciousness are connected under a Trinitarian Godhead that abides beyond our empirical proof or control, but not beyond our innate and humble receptivity in intution and empathy. Connection and Empathy: Good faith and Golden Rule. I see nothing shameful in that.

Too often, the NAP seems to morph into the toenail-regulating, family-destroying, gov-marrying principle. NAP from the one-way street view of militant atheists united only by the pleasure principle? No thanks.

Religion is not morality, but morality in the abstract is derivative of something beyond empiricism, i.e., spiritual. Religion can provide a language of metaphors with which to converse about spiritual morality. Many religionists are not literalists, but they are conversant with the language of assimilating parables.
That assimilation is how we aspire to avoid the busybody intrusiveness of toenail-regulating knowitall ACLU secular-humanists that want to replace the family with the friendly local gov regulator and bureaucratic redistributer.

If they appreciate "morality inherently," then I would not call them atheists. Why should a "true atheist" (if there is such a thing), be concerned about altruism -- except for calculating, temporary, and selfish purposes?
Even in that case, he would seem merely to be "self godding" personal pleasure. How do these "true atheists" derive "ought from is" -- if not by some kind of meta-leap of faith?

YOLO makes little sense to me. Then again, neither does Pearly Gates.

Most Americans are already non-religious. Or religious in name only. American Catholics? Hello. We already know what happens when most Americans forsake good spiritual sense, good faith, and good will in trade for the alt-religion of personal pleasure and security. It's what we have now: A lot of crap.

There are a lot of very smart secular Jews. Including Einstein. Was he not a "real" Jew? Many would tsk tsk believers as being bafflegabbers and science illiterates. Many are political Marxists or busybody ACLU toenail regulators bent on screwing up America.
I do not tsk tsk believers in an inviting, loving, purpose driving Reconciler. I DO take the Bible as containing much metaphorical wisdom. But I am not a literalist. Nor do I believe Jews are "chosen." Then again, I do not claim to know.

I believe you're blind in one eye and obstructed in the other. Look to the larger point. What I am saying is that everyone -- and I mean everyone -- who chooses -- consciously or subconsciously -- to found his/her identity primarily under a group is to that extent inclined towards being a profiler, racist, chauvenist, bigot. I am pointing out to all who may otherwise be blind and obstructed that the streets go more than just one way. Wake up.
I am NOT saying that skin color, intellect, ethnicity, etc., dictate a person's worldview. I am saying that people often self select for cultural groupings, and often are indoctrinated from birth to cultural groupings. And those groupings will tend to be "one-way blind." (Birds of a feather.
When I say this, I don't just pull the pants down for Jews. I pull them down for everyone whose vision is blinded. And I try to be open to understanding that even in my own case.
I don't target knowitall Jews any more than I target all other kinds of knowitalls. I think failing to adequately target knowitall Soros, ACLU, Hollywood, etc., has by default gone far towards screwing up America. In my view, Knowitall Legalism (ACLU) equals anti-freedom-loving Americanism. I do not target only Jews, but I do not run from Jews that want to screw up America, either. So, yeah, I have a freedom-loving American agenda. That leads me to like Israelis and to loathe Islam.
Patterns organize. That's how groupings form out of otherwise chaos. To deny that is to be silly.

If they don't identify as Jews, then take that up with the pollsters that tell us 70% voted for Obama. Or do you disbelieve that? Hello?

Why do you suppose atheistic and liberal Jews still want to identify as Jews? What is the point of that? Is it because they like the "stolen honor" of presumptive elitism?

I prefer the Jews that are Jews first.

There are many examples of people being educated beyond their intellects and being smart without having decency or common sense. Unfortunately, such characteristics often cluster among groups. Not because the individual members are necessarily stupid or corrupt, but because something about their mutual attraction (or wolf packing) brings out some of the worst in them.
Race, religion, and ethnicity do not prescribe character. But characters often form, solidify, and identify around races, religions, and ethnicities. To deny that general characteristics tend to form in such a way is to deny practical reality. To fail to see that, is to fall easy prey to that. Profiling, per se, is not the problem. The problem is inadequate factoring while profiling. Vetting can help resolve some of that.

It is not a mark of group intelligence when 70% of its voters went for Obama.

So why did 70% of Jews vote for Obama instead of for Romney? Are 70% of Jews anti-semites? Within my old OCS class, there abides at least one Jew (with more than a few supporters) that fervently believes Trump is Hitlerian for wanting to vet immigrants from Islamic nations. Seems like some kind of self hating death wish sickness. I like Israel. I just wish more American Jews had better sense.

True. But Islam is exponentially rocketed. Are the non- empirical religions of Global Warming, Gaia, Human Secularism, MultiCulti, and Feministas patriarchal?

There is at least a factor of ease of cleanliness behind male circumcision. Apart from culture-driven oppression, what is the purpose behind either scarring a female or impeding the development of her sexual expression as an adult? Why strain to be so patient with what is clearly cultural oppression and primitive savagery?

People of good sense tend to heap disrespect on Clinton and Bush also. In Obama's case (he of the Nobel Prize), he seems to invite disrespect like sticky paper invites flies. It's like he craves it, so give it to him. Maybe more people will think better before ever voting for such a creep again.

Islam is tailor made for incompetent s for brains parasites.

Neo-cons claim to be wanting to export democracy. Two things: First, most cultures are not presently amenable of growing representative democracy. Second, it's not democracy the wannabe masters want to export. It's NWO, with the freedom and dignity of the masses to be traded for phony promises by elites to secure them.

When you raise generations of perpetual infants, it's no wonder that everyone soon enough becomes a whinnyazzvictim. At this point, I'm almost surprised that it isn't "hate speech" to call whinnyazzvictims what they are. Now we are engaged in a great civil hissy fit, testing which whinnyazz is the biggest victim. We are gathered over the ruins of patriots that never saw this farce of walking diapers coming.

This is what happens when everything is "normal," when everyone is "married" to everyone, when gov redistribution is "charity," when "free" trade trumps assimilated borders, when ACLU lawgivers replace God, and when infants are licensed to run the world before they're qualified to leave the crib. Mass stupidity and corruption. "Stronger together." Gag!

Too many people think they have to buy into a culture just because they happen to share a skin color with prevailing practitioners. As if skin color were a causal agent.
They default to a lowest common denominator because they don't have decent exemplars in their lives. Race baiters are the opposite of moral exemplars. Too many people complain about racism, but then they choose to adopt culural behaviors for no better reason than because they share a skin color. Or a tattoo. Or a dress style.
They don't know what they are, want to be, or should be. So they follow the first strutting thug. Or jerkofff. Our leaders have become fake, hollow, chestless, soft, undisciplined, corrupt, lying, treasonous, and stupid. In the ghettos, in Congress, in media, in academia, in Hollywood, in music, in banks, in corporations, in charitable foundations, in churches.
What has happened to leadership everywhere is ugly, infantalized, incompetent, amoral, stupid, and faithless. It's just more noticeable in the hoods.
We need a miracle, and we need to function as if we have the sense to receive it.

Over time, I have considered myself a believer, agnostic, atheist, believer. Never a literalist. Always a metaphorist. Since I have changed, I cannot say what "I" always have been or will be.
I tried to make sense out of atheism and thought I had. Worked hard at it. But the pieces never could fit. I looked for empirical consistency, coherence, and completeness. I could not find it, and I think it cannot be found by logic based in math or empiricism.
Yet I seem to sense that a trinitarian Source of consistency, coherence, and completeness abides. That gives me peace. I hope you find a system that satisfies you intellectually and that works for you.

If you're confident in your atheism, why broach the topic? I can think of two main reasons. One, you want to explore the idea. In that case, choose appropriate forums. Second, you want to evangelize because you think society would do better to substitute reams of legalese for simple guidelines of good will.
Problems: One, most people are not interested in questioning their foundational belief systems. Second, most Americans don't want to be ruled under an intrusive system of legalese "gifted" by supposed elite and "better" thinkers.
I care little what a person's literal beliefs are, provided they support his social and political participation in good faith and good will. (So long as I sense good faith and good will in a person, I consider him to be religious or spiritual, whether or not he prefers different terms. Of course, I tend not to dwell on that with him.)
That said, some creeds do not support good faith or good will among humanity, outside their tribes. Islam tends to be in that vein. Those are creeds that I abhor.
But atheists? As to them, I only abhor the militants and legalistas. Indeed, many of my friends, in person or in books, avow to be atheists. So long as I sense human good faith and good will in them, I care little about that.
What was Benjamin Franklin as a young man and later as a patriot?

I don't find reasonable doubters to be scary per se. Not in the least. But I do find dramatic militant law roaches to be obnoxious.

You're chasing rainbows when you ask for empirical evidence of that which is innately spiritual. If you have not developed a sense of spiritual balance beyond the empirical based senses, that is a personal problem. Not a resume enhancer for being elected.
The problem most people have with doubters is only with the dramatic militants. The ones that think they should prescribe manmade regulations in lieu of spiritual good faith and good will. The ones that want to regulate all speech and enterprise, right down to the toenails. To save Gaia.
Those are the nose-in-air knowitalls that most people abhor. As to religious faith, the other side of the coin of belief is doubt. No mortal empirically "knows."

There is nothing innately supremacist about any created perspective of the Conscious Godhead. Every perspective is a work in progress.
That said, in a long view of recorded history, the coming together of conditions to birth a representative republic comprised of states federated under a system of checks and balances designed to secure the freedom and dignity of ordinary citizens was a spiritual rarity. A gift from above. That ought not be underappreciated or undervalued. That ought to be a beacon. As well as a workshop for learning from others.
But not a gift to be deliberately drowned under a flood of liberty illiterates and illegal invaders. Or to be defiled by faithless pervs, dopers, and self-godded people-farming heathen-hedonists. I.e., infantilized Progs.

I don't know about "chosen." But what has been going on since Jews became so disproportionately influential in so many of our most significant instututions seems far from the moral path. And when called on it, many are as quick to call "anti-semite" as a ghetto looter is to call "racist." All Americans, including Jewish Americans, need to be corrected in blunt terms: This s has to stop.

It seems some Jews believe they are a chosen tribe, numbered through their mothers. Theistic Jews need not believe in an afterlife, but do need to believe in God.
Atheistic Jews are a special kind of stupid. They believe not in God, so they believe not that they are of a tribe chosen by God. Apparently, they believe they are of a tribe chosen by Gaia. Or maybe they're just completely head upstuck and have no idea what they believe, so they shout their jewpride to the void as they pi*s and howl all over decent morals.
Bottom line: Israeli Jews --Good; American Jews -- sometimes howling Nuts, and often stumbling blocks to decent civilization. (Soros, Scotus, ACLU, Hollywood.) "Chosen" my a*s.

Re: "The right thing for customers is to offer the best possible product at the lowest price."
The right thing for the U.S. to MAGA is to not promote the lowest price by promoting perpetually enserfed labor. To render our borders superfluous would be to promote a NWO of oligarchs perpetually farming the people as desperately competing serfs. If that shows to be what Ford wants, then Trump (and all decent Americans) need to focus Ford's collective mind to understand that there will be heavy consequences to pay.

Sane people will remember Obama with the same long and affectionate memory they have for their first toilet hugging flu.

Lately, too many plagues have favored proggies. How much money was diverted to study AIDS? How much did that coalesce militant gays? For whatever reason, the default condition for agriculture-based humanity seems to be to live under despotism.
That condition will surely reassert ascendency unless an oasis contrives checks and balances adequate to resist it. That is a rarity. Our Founders accomplished it. But success bred softness bred infantilism.
We badly need some miracles, along with sense and decency enough to recognize and appreciate them. We need inspiration to fortify newly needed checks and balances, to save our oasis from hordes of default blood-sucking liberty-illiterate parasites. God bless America.
EDIT: Suppose human consciousness were to transition to machined chassis. Then eugenics would transition to memetics, culturetics, and programetrics. Someone revive or reprise Aldous Huxley.

Gaia practices eugenics, even when civilizations try not to. When civilizations defy Darwin on a grand scale, the field is abandoned to dysgenics.
We can provide reasonable general incentives and still avoid Hitlerism.
To do that, we ought to provide a social safety net, not a hammock.
We ought to be encouraging quality schools, not crime indoctrination centers.
We ought to be guarding the liberty-literacy of the nation, not importing third world parasites and predators.
We ought to be electing leaders that want to steer us to a great nation, not leaders that want to wreck us on subhumanizing rockheads.

Malicious Horsemen of misdirecting hero worship are raiding and riding high. Rappers, Hollyweirders, Talking Heads, Filtering Techies.
You won't see such high proportions of poor among those cultured in Whiteness engaging in the thug life. Reason: They don't want to take the advanced course in prison. Too many cultured in Blackness, otoh, seem to be taught to view prison as a finishing course on how to get even with their supposed victimizers.
We need a system of early release for perps, provided they agree to go live 20 years on a remote and nearly inaccessible island. At some point, chemical castration may make sense for repeat offenders. But imagine the Ginsbergian howls that would generate.
From Allen Ginsberg, Howl (a lefty's path for moving forward to paradise?):
who bit detectives in the neck and shrieked with delight in policecars
for committing no crime but their own wild cooking pederasty and
who howled on their knees in the subway and were dragged off the roof waving genitals and manuscripts,
who let themselves be f*d in the a*s by saintly motorcyclists, and screamed with joy,
who blew and were blown by those human seraphim, the sailors, caresses of Atlantic and Caribbean love,
who ball*d in the morning in the evenings in rosegardens and the grass
of public parks and cemeteries scattering their sem*n freely to whomever
come who may,
who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob behind a
partition in a Turkish Bath when the blond & naked angel came to
pierce them with a sword,
who lost their loveboys to the three old shrews of fate the one eyed
shrew of the heterosexual dollar the one eyed shrew that winks out of
the womb and the one eyed shrew that does nothing but sit on her a*s and
snip the intellectual golden threads of the craftsman’s loom,

I wonder how much killing by religionists is mainly due to cultural and economic competitions, with religion providing cover only for rationalizing? Among incompetent predators, parasites, and cannibals, Islam seems specially suited as an all-purpose cover-all. Islam is specially tailored for primitives that just want your blood, sweat, fear, and stuff.
The Spanish came to the New World with Bibles, looking for gold. They took the gold and left the Bibles. They convinced themselves the trade was fair. That kind of rationalization is what victors holding power do.
Now, we have a putsch by a small number of wanna-rule-you billionaires. Temporarily, they use and share power with infantilized proggies. Together, they rationalize that they are the cure for what ails the world. In reality, proggies just want free sex-dope-esteem-rave, while their owners want to put a boot on your face -- forever. These are not nice, decent, liberated, enlightened, or principled guys.
When decent adults restore good order, they too will need a rationalizing and inspiring code. A Source of Higher Mindedness. I doubt Paganism/Gaiaism can inspire or provide what is needed or innately felt. Maybe we will instead look to old parables with new contextual understandings.

Undomesticated, irresponsible Progs ought not be released unsupervised from their cribs before finishing their infancy. Nor should they be made governors or presidents.

Their "brains" are all in their glandular cravings. They have no higher mindedness by which to guide any moral philosophy, apart from sophistic rationalizations of their immediate wannas. By their "principles," they can make the Constitution unconstitutional, gov force into "charity," ignorance into strength, slavery into freedom, anal and goat sex into marriage, gov overseers into family, and deconstructive unraveling into a new world order. And they congratulate one another on their "wisdom." Especially if received in an Ivy school.

The only thing about Progs that makes sense to me is that they tend to be amoral, faithless, hedonistic, abusive, perverted, parasitical, self- deluded POSs. And they breed.

Why did Obama want to oust Assad? What did he want to replace Assad with? Was this policy in America's interest, or in the interest of people farmers fronting Obama? Obama, the NWO, and establishmentarian people farmers have boatloads of blood on their hands. Meanwhile, the American System is powerless to impeach denizens of the swamp that absolutely does not represent the interests of ordinary Americans. Go Trump! Drain the swamp. Lock up the denizens.

Freedom for the masses is a rarity that is easily lost if not vigilantly and jealously guarded. Every parasite wants to come to a free republic, but to bring his parasitism with him. Just say no to parasites.

There are more than 5 senses. There are the quantifying senses. And there is the sense of balance (or being in the world). That sense pertains both to physics and to metaphysics. To lose it is to lose a sense of morality and purposefulness beyond gland-driven pleasure.
(To ride a thousand pound Harley HOG is to learn to be alert at all times to the sense of balance. Motorcycle Zen. :))

Without liberty, there is little humanity.

Both funny and interesting. :)
I have advocated replacing the income tax with a consumption tax and eliminating most taxes on business and business investments.
But, can a robot be a taxable consuming unit? Well, a machine-enhanced human can. Or a cyborg. Or an AI programmed with degrees of freedom for self expression and enterprise.
Note: As roboticizing increases, won't the need for central gov intrusion diminish? As industry spreads more benefits, won't the need for tax redistributions decrease? At some point, maybe every consuming citizen will receive a fiat $200,000.00 each year (for passing Go?). Human (taxable consumer units) "work" would then amount to consuming.
Then, the problem would pertain to how to remove excess accumulations that otherwise would inflate and devalue money to meaninglessness. Solution (?): Program robot slaves that provide only consumption services to "eat" (and render into non-monetary waste) the money-chits used to harness their services? The "tax" on consumption would be the elimination of money used for consumption from that year's money supply.
People would still accumulate wealth and power, but it would be by non-taxable investments in productive businesses. To discourage divestment, conversions of business income into personal consumption could be additionally and progressively taxed.
OMG -- Maybe we should test this first on a simulation civilization?

The Founders wanted neither aristocracy nor democracy. They wanted a representative republic, so checked and balanced as to produce the best that humankind can offer. They wanted intelligence, talent, and industriousness to thrive.
Our problem is not elites, per se. Our problem is elites that think they should rule everyone else as farm animals. Whatever produces such thoughts in faux elites tends to produce absolute corruption. That is the evil that has infested all our institutions.
What can root that evil out? A turn to good sense, i.e., decent faith, sustainable family, virtuous fidelity. MAGA.

NWO people farmers are actively trying to convince us that they are "Conservatives." But what are they conserving? Not freedom and dignity.

Good, on-point observations. I found some quotes from Mill that may be less on point but interesting, nonetheless.
Mill (on Conservervatives v. Conservers of Liberty?): "I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid; I meant, that stupid persons are generally Conservative." (My comment: Mill may have neglected to notice that stupid persons are also easily led by Progs down a primrose path of drugs, sex, debauchery, faithlessness, amorality, brutishness, and cowardice.)
For myself, absent good reason to the contrary, I prefer according due respect for traditional wisdom. An exception would be when the barbarians are at the gates. Unfortunately, considering the agglomerated control of institutions by people-farming, subhumanizing barbarians, they are indeed at the gates, drooling. At some point, defense of liberty needs to become nearly instinctive.
Other interesting quotes from J.S. Mill:
On moochers: "It is not the fortunes which are earned, but those which are unearned, that it is for the public good to place under limitation."
On war and liberty: " A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
On (Gaia's?) law of nations: "What is called the Law of Nations is not properly law, but a part of ethics: a set of moral rules, accepted as authoritative by civilized states. It is true that these rules neither are nor ought to be of eternal obligation, but do and must vary more or less from age to age, as the consciences of nations become more enlightened, and the exigences of political society undergo change." (My comment: What tends to be a rarity and not to change is what is essential to human freedom and dignity -- to avoid the path of subhumanization.)

American Conservatism needs to be about conserving interpretations of the Constitution subject to its originating purpose of conserving liberty. That may sometimes necessitate fast action, sometimes slow action. But liberty is the keystone. Test: What kind of faith, family, and fidelity is needed to conserve a reasonably decent system that avails individual liberty of expression and enterprise? What is needed to prevent individual families from being replaced by gov cloning factories and bureaucracies? What is needed to put Progs that want to marry the gov back in the crib? There is no liberty in Prog Liberalism. No dignity. No family. No faith. No fidelity. Just sex, drugs, rap, rave, abuse, and fake charity.

The people that voted against Trump are Progloids, Musloids, Basementloids, Femiloids, Subhumanoids, competence devoids, and conscience devoids. I don't care what they "think" because they don't think. I want them back in their cribs.
EDIT: Evidently, Conservers of Liberty are just too "dumb" to appreciate the sophisticated world of rap, the exquisite wonders of dope, the pleasure of vomited excess of alcohol, the solidarity of polyamory, the death-courting of SM sex, the pleasure of keeping a boot on the faces of the American masses, the joys of national deconstruction and new world people farming.
Conservers of Liberty would prefer that Proggies find a giant lake and go take a flying leap into it. I could like that for the Proggies.

In some situations, charity can be powerful for teaching the educable. For salvaging indoctrinated souldead people-farmers, not so much.
What is often more effective is efficacious demand for treatment as a human being. Often, t for tat tends to be a more practical strategy for that.
Few rules translate well for all situations. Indeed, a quick path to self destruction or demotion to farm animal is to assume the universal applicability of a context-driven rule.
Jesus taught in context related parables. Context. The only rules that apply in every context are good faith (Great Commandment) and good will (Golden Rule). Often, to love your neighbor as yourself necessitates tough love. Not feeding delusions of entitllement mindedness.

Angela Merkel is a true believer. Key to true believers is the ease with which their educations (indoctrinations) exceed their intellects. She is so marinated in stupidity that she thinks it wise.
A true believer can easily be a thumper or a commie. As to humble receptivity to feedback guidance from the Reconciler, not so much. Merkel is on a pre-set, one-way, commie-lord mission. Even after being informed that she is mining fools' gold, she continues to hoard it.

The establishment has developed many tools to increase its people-farming power. Selecting hacks for tenure is one. Prescribing who is eligible for charitable deductions from the tax man is another. Brainwashing hordes to believe gov expenditures are charitable is a third. A cleansing sword of liberty is badly needed to kill the many hearts of subhumanizing rot and restore the people to their freedom and dignity as human beings.

Sociopathic people farmers have been with us always. Start with a society that indulges in grotesque forms of people farming. Then give a fool drunk on power and sexual abuse an opportunity to invent the worst religion possible for human beings and the best possible for grotesque people farmers.
Then read the Koran and ask yourself how "perfect" it is for that purpose. If not for the context of slavers, abusers, pervs, and sociopaths, no person of the least intelligence or decency would read the Koran and believe it to set forth the aspirations of God.
In every society, no matter how depraved its founding mores and institutions, there will always be "moderates." The fact that such moderating influences exist is no argument whatsoever for the truth, virtue, or basic "decency" of an utterly depraved system of "thought." No apology by any weenie-rationalizer can make clean what is innately filth.

An Elite Prog living in a confused state of God-Complex is someone who thinks he, with a Prog Think Tank, can design a best system of intricate and intrusive laws for regulating every person in every society right down to the toenails, even though he and they lack insight regarding the great and innumerable ways in which societies will soon flux and change. To heck with these femi-effers!

I suspect most people that matter don't give a flying f whether someone is black, jewish, gay, pagan, atheistic, whatever. Just flat don't care. They care more about ideas. And sometimes they are not blind that certain groupings among races, genders, ethnicities, cultures, and belief systems tend to carry certain predilictions with them. Statistics plus context tend to demonstrate successful factoring of such observations.
It is tiresome when elitists complain that people follow common sense. As if we should stop factoring common sense and instead be led around by our noses by elitists. It sometimes seems that every time a person applies good common sense, some pinkie-wagging moron that thinks he is eilte complains of xenophobia, racism, bigoty, antisemitism, mansplaining, ad nauseum. We have too many pinkie waggers. Darwin says its past time to grow the heck up.
Or maybe the better part of productive society should just join the circus and complain constantly at every turn of anti-responsibleadultism, aka, anti-whitey inclusive of anti-blackwhitey.
Whine too much and whininess just becomes background noise. Politically, Jews are all over the map. So, is every Jew now an anti-semite? Good grief!
Diversity madness seems to be stirring persecution complex run amuck. It pays too much.

The more the central gov intrudes to limit what localities, cultures, and families can pass on to their offspring in terms of moral, spiritual, and religious values, the more the gov encroaches on the roles for citizens and families. As families are replaced by so called experts acting on behalf of political shills for oligarchic funders, the more our civilization comes to resemble the indignity of a cattle farm. Knuckleheaded "experts" are not replacing our civilization with a better blueprint designed out of whole cloth. Rather, they are subhumanizing our civilization. The more the gov injects itself, the more it infantalizes people and makes its injections necessary.

There is too much hubris in the notion that legal process has some special power for finding correct answers for all future contexts based on limited insights about present values and situations. But femimen too readily fancy themselves having special expertise to lay down rules for future generations. There is little in in law or common sense that should require any federal court to intervene in most domestic quarrels that arise solely within a state. ACLU girlymen need to learn how to stfu.
Goldstein was like Trotsky: A goat offering for the people to hate, so they would not blame Big Brother for their hardships and woes. Commies blame unfair (lack of "equal") distribution of material wants and needs, so they will be diverted from blaming the idea of communism itself. The Pope has often seemed to be somewhat of a socialist, believing gov should take over charity and effect fair redistribution. Problem is, the gang that gains gov power to make redistributions is always far too human. A gov big enough to take your stuff to give it to people it deems more needy or deserving is a gov big enough to engage in monstrous fascism.
1984 was about a dystopia in which language was often upside down. Like now, where gov taxed redistribution is conflated with "charity." Where the Pope, living in the wealth of the Vatican, wants govs installed by moochers to take from producers and redistribute in ways SJWs may deem "fair." But I question whether that idea has ever produced anything like what it promises.
Even so, as I look at Lefties, it often seems like they get together to let out their "two minute hate" drills against producers. Even though they usually try to cover them in public with loving pretenses and "sophisticated" accents.
I don't think you understand how the white producing male with a responsible job is now often made a goat for hatred, much as Goldstein was. Of course, the billionaire people-farmers funding these two minute hate drills are somewhat inoculated. And the pajama boy femimen are mainly just ignored (except as usefully idiotic voters).
Are you sure you read 1984?

Leftys cannot tolerate Conservatives' failing to pick up the tab to pay for their free stuff. Leftys cannot understand what Conservatives have against free stuff.


I think Progism, Socialism, Communism, Marxism certainly are religions.  They are not well confineable to empirical standards or proofs.  They require faith (or, if you prefer, belief).

It may help if I define what I would mean by "God": The continuing Source though which mortals are availed to empathize in good faith and good will. That is, the Source which avails moral connectivity.

To respect that Source is to seek to be in tune with that which is innately metaphysical, spiritual, qualitative, beyond empirical proof or confinement, amenable only of intuitive feedback in empathetic good faith and good will.

Common parables and metaphors concerning such Source often help facilitate communications in good faith and good will.  In that respect, our feedback contributes to define what we become, morally.

As to religion, there are many definitions. There is no good reason to confine the idea of religion to a non-trinitarian singularity, or to Pearly Gates, or to Infernos.

Otoh, there is no good reason to include a depraved travesty like Islam as constituting a belief set that is amenable of "free exercise" under the First Amendment. Primarily, this is because the morally criminal and subhuman cult of Islam tends to require severe penalties for apostasy. IOW, there is no free exercise for former believers to publicly announce they no longer subscribe.

Some physicists believe all measurable Substance is nothing more than tricks of a web of math. In that case, God would be a mathematician. Sounds pretty freaking spiritually ineffable.



The English word "religion" is derived from the Middle English "religioun" which came from the Old French "religion." It may have been originally derived from the Latin word "religo" which means "good faith," "ritual," and other
similar meanings. Or it may have come from the Latin "religâre" which means "to tie fast," or "bind together."

"It is apparent that religion can be seen as a theological, philosophical, anthropological, sociological, and psychological phenomenon of human kind. To limit religion to only one of these categories is to miss its multifaceted nature and lose out on the complete definition." -- Kile Jones

A specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

Something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting

Webster's New World Dictionary (Third College Edition):
"any specific system of belief and worship, often involving a code of ethics and a philosophy."



"a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices; a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith." ~ Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary (online, 2006)

"Religion is the human attitude towards a sacred order that includes within it all being—human or otherwise—i.e., belief in a cosmos, the meaning of which both includes and transcends man." ~ Peter Berger

"Religion is what the individual does with his own solitariness." ~ A.N. Whitehead

"...for limited purposes only, let me define religion as a set of symbolic forms and acts which relate man to the ultimate conditions of his existence." ~ R.N. Bellah

"A religion is a unified system of beliefs and practices relative to sacred things, that is to say, things set apart and forbidden—beliefs and practices which unite into one single moral community called a Church, all those who adhere to them." ~ Emile Durkheim

"One's religion is whatever he is most interested in." ~ J.M. Barrie, The Twelve-Pound Look (1910)

"Religion consists in a set of things which the average man thinks he believes and wishes he was certain of." ~ Mark Twain

"We go into religion in order to feel warmer in our hearts, more connected to others, more connected to something greater and to have a sense of peace." ~ Goldie Hawn, Beliefnet interview

"Religion is to do right. It is to love, it is to serve, it is to think, it is to be humble." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

"Religion itself is nothing else but Love to God and Man. He that lives in Love lives in God, says the Beloved Disciple: And to be sure a Man can live no where better." ~ William Penn

"Religion, whatever it is, is a man's total reaction upon life." ~ William James

"Belief consists in accepting the affirmations of the soul; Unbelief, in denying them." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson


For myself, I am not here to evangelize for anyone's hereafter soul. I am here to support a way to assimilate and sustain America as a decent representative republic that avails human freedom and dignity.

I believe collectivist elitist systems are fundamentally subhumanizing and depraved. I loathe Muslims, Marxists, people-farming cronycrats, and knowitall lawmaking busybody ACLU types.  MAGA.


Disqus is a window for viewing the polarization across the land. Polarization that has been nourished by bad-acting cronycrats. The representative republic hangs in the balance. A uniparty of people-farmers and cluelessly useful-idiots is at war with ordinary people that mainly just want the central apparatus to leave them alone.
The reason the republic has come to such peril is because ordinary Americans slept too long. No more. They are educating themselves about the uniparty and forging alliances to defeat it. I wish we could return to just partying hardy, but that is about the size of things. Things will get better once the loaded diaper-draggiing wannabe diktaters are put snugly back in their progressive cribs.

Basically, I doubt you understand or appreciate what underpins political partisanship.  Communist true believers are every bit as capable of unreasoning stridency as the most devout biblethumper.  Yeah, basically, I view commies and thumpers both as affronts to spiritual good sense.

Think about what Progs tend to do to substitute for their confused spiritual faith.  Who tend to be the most ardent toenail regulators, while calling that "progress"?  When you think you're elite and have no respect for the spiritual good faith of others, what do you do?  Well, a lot of Progs turn to people farming, drugs, and one-way regulations against their "inferiors."  Think about why the blamegaming (using terms of "racist, phobe, bigot," etc.) tends to go one way.  Why do you see so few "hate crime" prosecutions on account of black on white crime?

It is impossible to rationalize or conceptualize any kind of worldview without taking some leaps of  faith -- either consciously or subconsciously.  I recommend David Deutsch (an avowed atheist, btw) and his book, The Beginning of Infinity.  Frankly, I find some atheists' disavowal of faith as juvey at best.

If you want to continue to converse, please demonstrate some capacity for thinking above a juvey level.  You're basically getting more tiresome than worthwhile.

Basically, I think juvey Progs are a mortal threat to the representative republic.  A republic that has been built over the sweat and blood of their betters, on which they now crap.  I loathe them.


Scientific Marxism is a religion to commies and proggies, too. They just call their leap of faith to meta-based morality "higher mindedness." IOW, they are so indoctrinated in their religion on a subconscious level that they don't even need to think about it. They believe it's not a religion if they don't think about it as such. To them, it's not scientific, not objective, not empirical, but still, not spiritual. Whatever it is, it does not exist as a measurable physicality or even as a qualitative signification of God. Maybe it's just TwilightZoneism?
Whatever it is, its adherents have killed hundreds of millions in its "holy" name. Since they don't think about it, it's not "faith." Just their belief system. Lol. Oh, and in their minds they have higher consciences. Bless their hearts.


We have too many Progs, Muzzies, and Liberty Illiterates. Things may have to get far worse to wake most of them up.
If good Americans come together and communicate serious good will in respect of a higher principle (or Principler), we may yet be guided to a semblance of sanity. That needs to be encouraged, notwithstanding knowitall self-pleasuring proggies.
The alternative may be a millenneum of subhumanizing loss of liberty. Of course, party-hardy, irresponsible parents and defilers of innocence won't give a D.
I loathe selfish-faithless-defiling-subhumanizing Progs, Socialists, Commies, and, most of all, Muslims. If we don't get the primitives and lalala loaded diaper draggers back into their cribs, what is coming may make the first half of the 20th Century look like a picnic.
The question: Did the Obama experience grease us for decline, or did it serve as a needed splash to wake enough people up? And man, are there ever a lot of sleepwalking s-heads, working overtime to preserve their "accomplishments" and to prepare the way for the next Bernie. But hey, they're "scientifically" moral and have a principled "conscience," doncha know?

Once decent people have had enough, social pressure should take care of the rest. Put the Progs back in their cribs and bring back shame. By legislating so much tolerance of Prog and Muslim insanity, we are tolerating ourselves to death.
For goodness sake, our society is sacrificing the innocence of its children on a pyre of Prog lunacy, depredation, and perversion. The non-aggression principle is generally a good thing. But Islam is not non-aggressive. And the non-aggression principle becomes ridiculous if carried to the point of sacrificing our children.
Must we wring our hands and tie ourselves in knots while Progs and Muslims fundamentally destroy our republic?


If Buddhism is a religion, then so is Communism. A religious difference between Communism and Islam: No sacred book advocates a death penalty for wayward Communists. If Communism is a religion, it is a religion one can engage in the free practice of. At least, in theory.
That is not the case with Islam. There is no freedom to become an apostate to Islam and still live. That is what makes Islam a criminal cult. If the *Mafia does not have a free exercise right under the First Amendment, why should avowed Muslims? If bawdyhouses can be shut down, why not Mosques?
*The Mafia had religious, blood like, initiation oaths. If that is not enough to make it a religion, they could add a belief that to die while engaged in crime would be a direct ticket to CrimeHalla. Should such a Mafia then have a right to recruit new soldiers openly, maybe even at job fairs at schools or convention centers? Of course not. So read the Koran and compare with Mafia codes. Is there a distinction that makes a difference (other than that Islam is far more horrific than Cosa Nostra)?
For civilization to require tolerance for such a death cult is for civilization to have a death wish.

Islam is not a "free exercise religion" for purposes of the First Amendment. We need Scotus and DC to extract upstuck heads.

Wonder if Proggie tolerance, promotion, appeasement, and catering to Islam had anything to do with it? Hollywood repackaging. Making the cops and whities and working Americans out to be the bad guys. Tying hands so no one can dare correct a RunAmuck in public. Wonder if that had anything to do with it?
This Nutbag Prog S Has To Stop.

A conserver of liberty prefers an informed electorate, because they are boss.
An elitist (whether commie, fascist, islamic, progic, or educatedfool) believes he is ruler or should rule, so it is only important that the people be instructed in what they should believe.
This is what makes proggies so smart in their own eyes. And so qualified to enact one-way rules to regulate everyone else down to the toenails. This is why they are loathsome subhumanoids. Rotten, rotten rotten.

The Russians cheated if they told the truth about Obama/Hillary in order to expose their lies. Against a regime based on elitist lies, to tell the truth is considered a low blow. Wrap your head in that, and don't let it happen again! S/
Prog Skulls: Impenetrable by truth, common sense, basic decency, or respect for ordinary producing Americans.

So ObamaProgs set the Middle East ablaze and then they're surprised that Russians celebrate their departure? Truly, Progs have perfected some kind of special s for brains. What can one do but laugh? No one can fix them.

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